Degree or Certificate?


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edited in Questions and Answers
Hey guys I am very new to game design.I am 19 years old,and I just wanted to know which is better between a degree or a certificate and which is more likely to get me a job,I really love games and I have started Learning java and c# but have no clue where to go from there,please if anyone could help me and give me some advice it would be much appreciated.

Comments


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    Doctorate > PhD > Degree > Diploma > Certificate -- I think?

    I'm not sure what you're looking for a job in - just in general, or in game dev specifically? If it's specifically game dev, then the best way to go about it would be to build actual games (or at least stuff related to games).

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    I really love programming so I was thinking either Ai programmer or 3D programmer. I am not very artistic and can't really draw or anything like that.

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    Better than any qualification is a portfolio of some sort. If you can show work you have done, you have the best chance. Furthermore, for your own personal edification, keeping busy with projects is not a bad idea.

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    I am going to a collage next year called CTU Training solutions in Johannesburg and I am going to do my MCSD course there, I know not many people have heard about it and that its not one of the best,but I have read that the MCSD course is a very good course so I am mainly going for that but I am still very afraid that there isn't jobs out there and I don't make a success out of myself.

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    Do you have means to go study ? if you can why not go do a computer science degree. In South Africa I don't think the industry is large enough for you to focus solely on game dev qualifications. You will be better off doing something that can make you money so you can support your self while making games.

    Which brings me to my next point : make games. If you want to get into game dev all you need to do is make games. Here is a video I often link to because it was a tremendous help in my own life. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdwzvdZFxVM

    But yeah as far as qualifications go for game dev I don't think it matters that much. I would like to hear what people from free lives, QCF or luma say, but from what I can see most studios just want someone who can do the job.

    That is all just my opinion and I am in no position to give out advice so do with that what you will.

    Have a nice day,
    Kobus

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    I would have went to study par time at UNISA but I don't want to learn things I wont be implementing one day.I have read that the courses they offer are not specific and don't talk about one topic but a group of them.I wanted to go to collage to focus on what I would be using on a daily bases. But I am not sure whether that's the right choice I made on my part. I would like to be working with a group of people one day. Even if its just Indie games. I am not worried about the salary I just want to make good games for people like me to enjoy. But like most people I would love to one day be making games like Far Cry.

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    If you want a job in the local games industry I would say that qualifications are almost meaningless (especially on the indie side). I think you're much better off trying to make games, learning and building a portfolio along the way.

    That said, I loved my studies and will advocate being a student as an excellent avenue for personal growth. If you love programming and have your heart set on AAA games then computer science is probably not a bad choice.

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    Thank you guys for the help!! I just wanted to know one more thing....Which languages would you recommend for me as a game programmer to learn? I still have so many question's but that will be for another day. :)

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    I'm surprised that MCSD courses still exist. They were seen as relatively worthless even way back when I finished school. I'd always be extra skeptical about certificate mill colleges, chances are that they're making money out of people's insecurity rather than introducing needed skills. Are people looking for MCSDs?

    Start making things today: Make Tetris in different languages and platforms to see which ones you enjoy the most. Then start making your own stuff. Play around :)

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    What @dislekcia said. It might have changed since I was looking at degrees, but CTU seemed to teach programming with most of the emphasis on learning programming languages and getting certifications (like the MCSD).
    Longer degrees/diplomas tend to put more emphasis on teaching you how to think in the right way, rather than learning specific tools. Once you know how to program and to think, language/tool choice becomes almost inconsequential. You choose the tools according to practical factors, like what your team is most experienced with or what goes with a specific game engine.

    Specializing in AI or graphics programming is great, but that's usually only useful for getting into big corporate-ish studios or for academia. In that realm you would need to prove you're good at your specialization, and you'll probably only be doing that for the rest of your life. For example in my degree I specialized in Computer Graphics, but I've had to do all different sorts of programming in the games I have been apart of (not just what I got taught in my degree).

    A qualification is definitely not useless, just don't rely on it to get you the job you want. A degree might make it a little easier to get noticed by big companies, but a great portfolio or experience above and beyond will more likely get you the type of job you aim for.

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    If you want to be a programmer do a Computer Science or software engineering degree. Why? Like @creative360, going through a degree is more about how you think and solve problems. Programming is easy but creating your own algorithms to solve a problem comes with learning other algorithms, which I don't think certificate courses tend to focus on. They are more geared to making sure you know how to solve a specific problem set while university degrees give you the tools to solve any problem set.
    rustybroomhandle said:
    keeping busy with projects is not a bad idea.
    I can't stress this more. Even though you come out with a degree but don't have any projects to show that can prove that you learnt anything. You going to struggle to find a job. Plus its good practice to actually implement a lot of the theory that you learn during the degree.

    IMHO: Do a degree and always be working on side projects to beef up that portfolio.

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    I have checked online and I can't apply for UNISA anymore because its too late. I wish I found this forum a lot sooner. But now I am stuck with a big problem. I Either go to a different collage or I go work for a year and study the following year. Please help...

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    @Cyperus - Surely you could do Unisa from june? I'm sure they run their programmes in semesters so you'd be able to start it around then given the flexibility of the university and correspondence studies. I would say that you do need to be extraordinarily organised and disciplined to get through a degree with them - but if you're studying what you love, that's easier.

    I would honestly go for the option of working now. Gaining work experience (any work experience - working with teams, clients, customers ect will be valuable) and tinkering with game maker in your spare time is going to be worth it, I promise.

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    I Agree I would rather go and work with a group of game developers for a year.But I am the only person I know that wants to go into that field,so it would difficult for me to find guys to work with...

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    If you want to be a programmer do a Computer Science or software engineering degree.
    You seem to have already settled on doing a degree, but just to reinforce what people have said, yes, a degree is a good idea.

    You don't need a piece of paper to make games, no. Do that as a hobby on the side, use the internet etc.

    But if you want to be employed as a professional software engineer (and that's a good way to get production experience or support yourself while making games), you'll need either a good CV with years of experience and solid references, or a decent qualification. The qualification doesn't necessarily mean you're good, but lacking experience, it's the best way employers have of judging whether you have the skillset and the mind for the job. No one is saying you can't get a job without one, but it helps.

    I've worked at a number of companies, good companies, where a comp sci degree is a bare minimum for a junior position.

    A portfolio is good, yes, but outside of gaming, a portfolio can be a hard thing to judge. Quite frankly, there's a lot of plagiarism online. Did this person write the thing they claimed to write? Hard to tell. I've sat on interview panels judging candidates, you'd be surprised how many just outright copied the answers to the projects we set them off the net. I'm not saying a portfolio is not important, I'm just saying it doesn't override everything else, necessarily.

    So yeah. Do a degree, and work on side projects while you do so to give yourself that edge. :)

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    From what I have read here, I think I am going to do my computer science degree. But I will look up what "dammit" said and see if I can do it with UNISA next year...Thank you guys and girls for all your help!

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    Cyperus said:
    I Agree I would rather go and work with a group of game developers for a year.But I am the only person I know that wants to go into that field,so it would difficult for me to find guys to work with...
    You might not be able to work in your desired field just yet - you have to think of what you can offer the company right now with your skill set. If you can't offer them anything, then take your time and work in an admin job that gives you the mental space to come home at night and design games in your spare time. That will take discipline too - and will build your portfolio and reputation before you even start towards a degree.

    Hell, I worked for 2 years as a dental assistant while doing my undergrad and that wasn't any waste of time. I learnt to deal with difficult people, manage orders and manage my time well (by doing unisa at the same time). While I never worked in dentistry again, the skills I learnt there have helped me be a better employee at companies that I have worked for since.

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    Cyperus said:
    I Agree I would rather go and work with a group of game developers for a year.But I am the only person I know that wants to go into that field,so it would difficult for me to find guys to work with...
    There's nothing stopping you making little games to grow your skills and putting those up here to find yourself a team over time :)

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    I wouldn't even think twice. I know this may upset some people, but Degree >>> anything else. For a couple of reasons beyond what's already been said. In order of relevance to what you want to do:
    1. You say you want to do AAA (Far Cry). You will be competing with people who have degrees AND have a portfolio AND don't have the added stigma of needing to organize a working VISA. If your portfolio and past indie experience is exceptional, you may have a chance but otherwise it's going to be hard.
    2. There's typically a fair amount of "down time" at varsity, depending on your aptitude. Even if you don't do a game-focused degree, you will have time to work on things like portfolio projects over those three years anyway. In fact you absolutely should be doing this, just don't let your main coursework suffer as a result :)
    3. Right now you don't care about salary and just want to make games. Take it from someone that's been down that road-your priorities change as you get older and you may feel differently at some point. At that stage, having a degree will help you because you'll have a broader background and contacts in other industries (see next point).
    4. Varsity is your first opportunity to network with the people that will possibly one day be IT leaders locally. Good to have that network.

    If you're facing a 6 month-year delay before you can start a degree, I'd say your best options are:
    1. First prize would be an internship at a gamedev studio, but that's unlikely with little education or experience.
    2. If you are in a position to not need to work/study for that time (your parents are ok with you doing your own thing, and supporting you), spend it building games. First do some stuff on your own, don't be too ambitious, focus on getting some really small projects finished. Lots of great advice on that already on these forums. Once you have some simple stuff that you can show off, try starting/joining a group of people at a similar point in their careers and work on something bigger (but still realistic). You will not build Far Cry by yourself. You will also not build Far Cry with 4-5 people. Don't even try :)
    3. If you can't do either of these, try to find work as a programmer working on anything else. Don't be picky about industry or salary-in fact be prepared to work unpaid. Look at it purely from an educational point of view.


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    Cyperus said:
    From what I have read here, I think I am going to do my computer science degree. But I will look up what "dammit" said and see if I can do it with UNISA next year...Thank you guys and girls for all your help!
    Two things with UNISA:

    1 they have two application periods per year. The next one will be in around April which means you will only start studying your degree around July next year.

    2 UNISA's CSET Faculty has the least external support (there aren't classes or anything of the like you can attend) so this means that it's a rather solitary thing to do. This is fine if the degree is a kind of secondary focus to game development, but if you intend on pursuing the qualification and actually gaining the most you can out of studying then I would really recommend a university that isn't UNISA. This is coming from someone who has studied CS as a regular university and UNISA ;)

    Beyond that, and I'm basically repeating things hear, if you want to be working in game dev and seeing as you have C# experience go pick up Unity3D and start working through their tutorials and make some games. And you really should be able to be working from their. While portfolio and games are king there are definitely certain advantages that having a formal CS background will help you with in terms of all game dev programming.

    But if you want to be working in AAA a degree is a pretty good way to go and you'll probably want to read this the guy who wrote it is currently working at Ubisoft Montreal and was at IO Interactive.

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    Great advice from everyone and the article linked to by @Karuji really explains it all very well.

    I too would say that if you have the means to do it, you should try and do a full-time University degree. You don't need a degree to become a great programmer or to create awesome games, but as mentioned by others it will now only teach you core fundamentals but it has the ability to really broaden your horizons, and it can be key if you have aspirations to go work at an overseas game studio one day, as many jobs still have a degree as a prerequisite.

    University also offers one other great thing: the chance to be a student! Basically for 3/4 years you have the excuse to spend all your time learning what you are interested in and the opportunity to be very social, without all the responsibilities that typically come later in life. For many their time as a student are the best of their lives, so if you have the chance to do it, it is an opportunity not to be missed :)

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    Hey everyone.

    Excellent advice from everyone. Just a note from my side.
    Cyperus said:
    I would have went to study par time at UNISA but I don't want to learn things I wont be implementing one day.I have read that the courses they offer are not specific and don't talk about one topic but a group of them..
    I felt very much the same in not wanting to learn 'general stuff' that 'I'll probably never use'. I just wanted to learn specific things for what I want to do. However, there are two problems that I've seen (both as an employee and employer) with that approach:

    1. In the working environment, you get paid to do what the boss wants you to do. So if you don't learn general things, it may prove difficult to find a job that lines up with the nice specific things you want to do.

    2. All the candidates that I've seen in the time I've been looking for employee have similar issues. They tended to get qualification that focus on a few specific areas/topics. Which is nice, because they displayed very good knowledge on those topics. But, when the task at hand calls for something related in a different area they had a very tough time coping.

    So basically, I would 100% support the rest of the guys saying that a computer science degree is the best move you can make. Yes it will be 'general' and sometimes pretty 'vague' and yes, you won't ever use around 50% (in my case) of what you've learned there. You will, however learn specific ways of thinking about a problem, how to approach a solution and how to implement various solution in a completely non-specific way. And this I believe will give you a great advantage in the market.

    As for having to wait for the June intake for Unisa, if you are interested you can PM me and I may be able to assist with some training / part time development work until then.

    Best of luck on your studies!

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    I think i will be doing the computer science degree at UNISA in June but i will need help I am not used to doing everything myself i would not even know where to start.I am the first person in my family to be going to a University.Or even a Tertiary School at that...But thank you again for all the help ALL!

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    Cyperus said:
    I think i will be doing the computer science degree at UNISA in June but i will need help I am not used to doing everything myself i would not even know where to start.I am the first person in my family to be going to a University.Or even a Tertiary School at that...But thank you again for all the help ALL!
    Don't worry. UNISA study groups and shadow campuses exist around the country, I'm sure you should be able to find one to visit if you need to. Also, several people here have degrees from UNISA, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to help you out if you have questions about the various processes and things that a large institution makes you do without properly explaining them first.

    Congrats on trailblazing :)
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