Puzzle game in progress / Need input regarding controls


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edited in Questions and Answers
Hi.

I need some advise regarding what defines a puzzle game. I am making one where you have to move a rectangular object of sorts through a maze with objects. You cannot touch anything or else you fail.

My issue is the object is free rotation controls. So i you can rotate it freely on any axis. The concern i have is it removes the puzzle elements by doing this, because you do not have to think about how you rotate him. You only rotate him to accommodate the angle of obstacles around it at the time.

I was considering to make it rotate one direction for 45 degrees at a time. That way if you have to get through a difficult section you need to preplan what is going to happen at that angle. So it will add some thought into it. If you are indeed going to be in the correct angle to pass the objects. Because once you are near the objects if you rotate another 45 it will collide.

I would really appreciate some input on this issue.
I want it to be a puzzle game. Not sure if i am categorizing it incorrectly. But a game where you have to think about your move before you make it.

Comments


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    edited
    I'm not sure if this will solve your problems, but it may be interesting:

    http://devmag.org.za/2011/04/16/how-are-puzzle-games-designed-introduction/

    There are some interviews with puzzle designers, which are summerised in the conclusion.

    Just a side-note: why the puzzle constraint?

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    First reaction: words isn't really enough to get across what's in your head. So make something, show us :)

    Your initial description sounds like it was a dexterity game, but you're calling it a puzzle...
    Is it real time or turn based?
    Is it grid based or free form?
    What makes it a puzzle if I just have to figure out a way through a thing? Why would I even touch things if it's not real time? if it's real time why is it a puzzle instead of a dexterity game?

    Me confused :/

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    Thanks for the link.

    Its a real time game. Not grid based.
    Designed for mobile touch controls.

    Example
    image

    Basically u have to get the person out the house. If he touches walls or objects the awareness value raises. Once it reaches consciousness the person wakes up and the mission is failed.

    The person floats freely in the air.
    I will add some chandeliers and stuff so u cant go too high and just float over all the furniture.

    I was wondering if i change the free rotation to 45 degree intervals to make it more challenging. Otherwise u will easily get them out of the house.

    PS. The assets are still WIP. But thats the general look i will go for. Most of the stuff is just blocked in. And its off topic :p


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    edited
    Yeah so it doesn't sound like a puzzle game really, it's a dexterity game - momentum and things makes it possible for you to hit things unintentionally, maybe something gives you a time pressure... Maybe you gotta figure out a good route, or something...

    But it doesn't seem like a puzzle game :P Unless of course there's something I don't know about that makes it a puzzle game.

    Why are you floating? Are you like a ghost? Or some kind of floating hacker drone or something?

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    I added back momentum. I liked that a lot cause you had to be careful not to pick up too much momentum.

    Humans are levitating because you assume the role of an alien that was tasked with abducting people from their homes.
    So you levitate them to an open window.

    The first 6 levels are based in one house with one family. The people wake up if you bump them a lot and the awareness bar reaches 100%

    Will post a video soon. Just waiting on apple to give my new cert so i can optimize for mobile.
    Busy making the kid characters.

    Will only abduct kids. Not by design. But time constraint. Pushed out 2 characters. Time to rig.

    Some screens are available over on UE forums.
    https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?32030-WIP-Mobile-game-Not-named-yet

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    Does the main character look like this?
    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1pqnXR4U9w8/maxresdefault.jpg

    Hehe, all jokes aside, This sounds like a pretty cool game, Maybe you could have a destructible environment, tables falling over, glass smashing, you could even have it that the floating person is under a paralytic beam so he won't wake up, but if you start bumping stuff other members of family will wake up.

    Puzzle base will depend on waiting for the insomniac son or daughter to fall asleep before selector her, or the girl/boy that keeps going to the bathroom, sort of like a timing puzzle game.

    The character has to be asleep before you can hit them with the beam otherwise they will start screaming or something?

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    Hah. Actually that was my inspiration behind the game.
    Also i am implementing patrolling pets. a Dog that barks.

    I have physic meshes like tall lamps, tv's potplants n stuff you can bump over. Touching them does not immediately affect awareness.

    The game is going to be free. So There will be IAP's. Mostly a tranquilizer to lower awareness if the level is too difficult.
    Still busy importing the assets room by room. Doing optimization as i go. Testing scalability of various devices. The screen was grabbed directly from the phone.

    My lightmaps are still very low res. But will keep working on it.
    All in all i am happy i went with UE4. Package size is now 47MB. Performance wise i get 60+fps
    Will see if that holds up once i am finished adding all the assets.

    image

    And no. My characters look a bit different from the alien :p

    image

    image


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    Looking good :)

    How about adding a fixed amount of rotations per rotation class, 4 45deg left, 6 45deg right, 2 90deg...

    Doing this you can plan out a optimal route through the house before the player even looks at the level, depending on the amount and type or rotations optimal gameplay might have the player going around the long way through the house instead of the typical shortest route. This should give you the "puzzle" element as the player needs to plan with the given actions. As a bonus you can even go trough the level multiple times, but with a different set of controls, this could easily be turned into difficulty level if you wish.

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    Awesome. Thanks for the ideas.
    Will post some videos soon of what it controls like.

    Just finished up on the house stuffs. a Small tickbox set me back a few days :(

    image

    image

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    OK so wanting to get this done. Been 2 months since the switch to UE4.
    Going for security cams. Need to time and work out the patterns before moving on as they will set off an alarm. (semi puzzle i guess)

    Performance on android is better than IOS running at 43FPS and on IOS at 24FPS.
    That is with no texture compression on lightmaps. I really do not like PVR compression. So ugly but hey. Mobile.
    Also no propper optimization has been done. All textures are still 1024 and all meshes are still separate.

    Package weighs in at 48mb on IOS and a bit smaller on android.

    Added a quick concept of red highlights when you are near objects to make it more visible on mobile when you approach enemies. I mean walls and objects.

    Controls were modified. Swiping left or right rotate character 45 degrees. Pinch n zoom controls camera zooming in and out. Left thumbstick is character movement. Right thumbstick is camera movement.

    Implemented ragdoll physics blended with the animations to give the appearance of someone floating in low gravity zone and moving accordingly with limbs swinging when you change directions.

    image
    image

    Will hopefully get this done in another week.

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    Would really like to be able to give it a play, right now the concepts are all kinda in my head and I'm not even sure how they interact so the head-concepts are difficult to justify commentary :/
  • MCAMCA

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    Who left all the lights on before going to bed? Night-vision mode perhaps? How about motion sensors in the house, that can be temporarily disabled with some sort of EMP? Looks good, hope to see a video clip soon!

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    edited
    I was thinking of doing the nightvision thing. If i do go that route i will save a lot of space on package size by using less lightmaps.
    Will check what it looks like later. My only concern with that is possibly bland lighting.

    @Tuism, i can make a html version but it would be weird without the touch interface. Otherwise i can upload the .apk and or .ipa files for download for testing.

    Also i was wondering if i need to add surroundings like grass and roads n stuff to give the levels a more complete look and feel as opposed to the interior of a house surrounded by darkness.

    The video showcases controls mostly and rough gameplay. Lots of polishing still required.
    Swiping rotates player (want to implement lifting and lowering also based on vertical swipes)



    The EMP thing would be pretty awesome. Especially if its an IAP :p

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    Ah I see :) Much clearer now.

    I see why you'd call it a puzzle game now, though it's pretty much beyond categorising :) Float-em-up? :)

    Feels like a lot of your gameplay will rely on the environment and things you encounter - other than that it's fairly straight forward. So work a lot on your environment and see how they affect the game. Not just straight forward awareness down, but more stuff like... I dunno, the dog and the EMP and lights and things sound like great starting places.

    I think having lights on could affect awareness? Sleeping in a brightly lit room is different from total darkness... So it might affect a portion of the person's awareness going down and up.

    I personally really don't like the tranq as IAP thing. You'll obviously make the game almost impossibly harder to make money. I like to think of adding features (or building a full thing and taking away features until it's a free game and let people buy them) rather if doing IAP. Like more levels or different modes of play.

    Good start :)

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    Thank you.

    Sounds like a plan. I am skeptical about the IAP's atm. I think the game will just be free with some adds.
    The EMP idea i will test. Dogs i dont think i will implement. Would just go for the light, general environment and security cameras.

    Right now just testing the nightvision mode and implementing raising awareness if you are in a lit area. And lowering awareness when you are in a dark area.

    I still need to find a publisher for Android Google Play store. Really sucks that SA cant sell on that store.

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    Crocopede said:

    I think the game will just be free with some adds.
    ...
    I still need to find a publisher for Android Google Play store. Really sucks that SA cant sell on that store.
    You don't need a publisher for a free game on Google Play, SA works just fine :)


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    Oooo goody. Will add it there then. Also i have a mate in UK that said he doesn't mind creating an account for google play should i want to sell in the future.

    I need your opinion on this Me and my women cannot agree. I say the more bloom the cooler. She says it will give her some seizure fit.

    Left is what i prefer. She reckons the right side is better. Not only do i need to settle this bet, but also your opinions are valued as to what would be better for the players

    image

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    Left is too much, right is too little, find a happy middle ground :)

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    Cool man thx. Will do that. then everyone is happy :)

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    Is this codename abduction that I saw on IndieDB?

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    Hi.

    Yes Fanie it is.

    I am very near completion. There have been some major issues. Perhaps the universe hates me. I don't know. But after an engine update physics blend weights no longer work properly. I had to remove the rag doll effect.

    Play testers... are moaning. They are saying it is too difficult.
    We have come to the conclusion it is because they are casual players incapable of moving the camera with the right stick, and the character with the left stick at the same time.
    They can only do one at a time.

    When i play it i get perfect scores... but that could just be me having designed the game.

    So i am faced with the decision to either add a disclaimer stating its for hardcore players only.
    Or i must design an automated camera system as this seems to be the biggest challenge for players. Seeing where they are.

    Frankly i am in favor of option one. This game is taking too long. It can always be improved upon at a later stage and updated.

    Being an Indie is a lot harder than i initially believed. It seems that even the simplest of games take tremendous amounts of time to complete. I do not understand why though.

    Perhaps my workflow is broken. Or perhaps its when i fix something, something else breaks.

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    @Crocopede: You should probably treat the feedback you're getting from players with more care. If people are saying the game's too hard, the game's probably too hard! Especially if you're using your own playthroughs to gauge difficulty (yes, you're always better at your own games, this is a known design pitfall). Rather address the issue and guide people into the game's difficulty rather than assuming that they're not "hardcore enough" to play it right ;)

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    Hi.

    I am trying to think of ways how to address it.

    I can think of 3 options.

    1: Disclaimer saying only hardcore players can play or should (as you pointed out... not really a great idea)
    2: Tone down the penalty for being in the lit areas (this is what caught most people, as they time the security cameras and at the current rate if you are in a lit area for more than 4 seconds you are dead and on average to time a camera can take up to 6 seconds)
    3: Make the levels overall easier in terms of less cameras. (not in favor though. I think the penalty in lit areas if toned down should suffice)

    Then there is still the issue about the camera. Personally i do not want to redesign the camera settings. I like having full control over my cam. Testers are indicating that moving the camera is an annoyance. But in the same breath are saying they want to be able to look around. This is after i suggested having a fixed camera of sorts. They do not want. But they do not want the other either.

    However as this is also an annoyance for some people, i think one solution would be to add a spherical helper around the player that renders all walls in its vicinity translucent. So even if the camera is at a crap angle... you can still see the player through the walls.

    As for the guidance into difficulty thing. I think this is my biggest challenge. I made it for what seems to me to be ok'ish progressively harder. But the testers did agree that it goes from easy to bat shit crazy hard in 4 levels.

    Think i will rework the level design a bit.
    We are currently having a debate about the player movement and why its so hard in terms of camera + player control


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    @Crocopede: The "xray" around the player sounds like a good idea, can you test that easily? Also, you might want to consider a half-half approach to camera management where you set up specific camera points along the path that the player might take and have the camera tween along those depending which two nodes the player is between, then if the player touches the right analog stick they switch into free camera mode and can position the camera wherever they want. It would probably be a good idea to add in a button to go back to "rails camera" mode and show that on the UI in the free-cam state ;)

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    I did test the xray walls however its more of a complete see through situation where the area around the player is completely invisible. There is a slight performance hit of a few frames. Nothing too major.

    Will see how much work it would be to build a cam rail system of sorts.
    Right now in a bit nauseated by 4.5 preview build of the engine. After switching to it (for use of a better hud system) a lot of other things broke. Like character rag doll, material instance parameters.

    All of which is setting me back.

    I think i should take the plunge and just revert to 4.4.3 which would take a few days. But at least there everything works apart from a nice HUD.

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    Hi.

    Mind the X top right. Some bug with playing the mobile version on a pc. You dont see it on mobile.
    Just optimizing size then im releasing to app store and google play.
    Oh and i need to add the AD's quick. But all in all i think its sufficient for a release. Will release updates in near future

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