[Prototype] Agent Unseen - "tough as nails" stealth-em-up

Comments


  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    Well done on the new version guys, I found this one a LOT more engaging than the previous ones. I think the move towards a harder difficulty is what makes the most difference for me. I really felt like I had to slow down, lurk, and consider how I was going to get past the situation in front of me.

    What I really want is a few more things in the level, and a few more ways to interact with the environment. Here are some throw away ideas:

    - Pools of water (or something) that you have to move through really slowly to avoid making a lot of noise.
    - Sniffer dogs that cannot see you, but will bark if you get too close.
    - Furniture that you can hide behind, or even push around.
    - A trap item.
    - Little passageways that you can use but the guards cannot. (Like the vents in Mark of the Ninja)
    - The ability to briefly peer around a corner without exposing myself.
    - Enemies that don't patrol, but are strategically placed so that you can still get behind them. (@TheFuntastic mentioned this already).
    - Loud machinery that will drown out other sounds in the room.
    - Corridors?

    Also, the gamepad controls would be a whole lot better if you put a deadzone on the analogs. I died more than once because I accidentally slid out of my hiding place.



  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281

    Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    edited
    Firstly, thank you all for trying the new build @MCA, @Mexicanopiumdog, @TheFuntastic and @Squidcor :)

    I've been meaning to reply to the great feedback here, but have been a bit swamped recently (sorry for the delay). A lot of the comments I completely agree with, like adding more information for you to plan around when in the shadows, so please don't think I disagree with your suggestion, or didn't read it, if I don't directly reply :)
    Your melee weapon needs to have and arc of attack.
    The idea is that, if you make a good plan from the shadows, executing that plan should be fairly easy. So things like an arc for the taser will definitely be made more clear (there is already a bit of an arc, and you can sweep for a bit, but it should be better).
    Some situations are impossible, particular two guards patrolling a choke point in full light before the player has any items. Maybe the player needs to start with a free item?
    You already start with a taser and an extra health point, we wouldn't want to make things easy now ;)
    So maybe you can bind "hearing" to a button, and means you can't move when activated, but you can hear around corners as it were. This allows you to build a model and form a plan (this is important) before you run into engagement in difficult scenarios. This would have to better than the current "hearing" abilities in that it would have to highlight enemies as if they were in plain sight.
    Something like this was on our todo list for an item pickup, but it made me think: what if standing still for a bit improved your hearing (or other senses)? No need to press a button, and it can still be upgradable...
    Something like "hearing distance increased" would be an awesome upgrade that would make not dying meaningful. Other "abilities": invisibility, running quietly, run speed etc
    All of those, except run speed, are already in the game. It might not be communicated very well when you get them, but they're there :)
    They inventory system is a bit junk though. You're going to have to rethink this ;) Possible solution: Hotline Miami only had one weapon slot, and whatever you choose to pick up would replace the currently activated weapon. This of course you need graphics to differentiate items/weapons
    Am I correct in assuming it's the changing of active items that's the issue, not the fact that you can carry multiple items? If so, I completely agree. I do think that carrying multiple items can give rise to some interesting situations where you combo things, but at the moment it's quite clumsy to switch, it needs to be much sleeker.
    Also I know this goes against the "roguelike" convention, but I'd kind of like to play failed missions again. There were quite a few that felt interesting, but then I screwed up. Being presented with a completely different situation after that felt disengaging. The penalty of this could be the fact you lose your abilities and start with no items, so you still maintain some of the "unforgivingness"
    Haven't thought much about that disengagement aspect. Not sure hat just being able to restart would work, even if you drop all items. I will have to think about this one a bit more. Personally my reaction is more like: "DAMN! Why did I try to do that? AG! Oh well, let's try again, I'll be sure to finish this time..."
    Squidcor said:

    - Pools of water (or something) that you have to move through really slowly to avoid making a lot of noise.
    - Sniffer dogs that cannot see you, but will bark if you get too close.
    - Furniture that you can hide behind, or even push around.
    - A trap item.
    - Little passageways that you can use but the guards cannot. (Like the vents in Mark of the Ninja)
    - The ability to briefly peer around a corner without exposing myself.
    - Enemies that don't patrol, but are strategically placed so that you can still get behind them. (@TheFuntastic mentioned this already).
    - Loud machinery that will drown out other sounds in the room.
    - Corridors?
    Lots of little juicy interesting ideas here, thank you :)


    An idea I had to try and smooth the "interest curve" (how interesting it is to wait in the shadows and plan) was have more inanimate obstacles in the earlier levels, and slowly replace those with guards as you progress from level to level. The idea is that you can more easily plan around all the rotating cameras, lasers and such, which have a very regular pattern, before moving on to the more irregular and "random" guards. Does this sound like a good idea?


    At the moment we're spending quite a bit of time doing contract work so we can build up our savings again and get back into things full time, so unfortunately updates might be a bit slow. We'd be very happy to accept any donation though... ;)

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    Had a play and it's pretty freekin cool. I like the feeling of peeping round the corners and seeing the enemies blinking. After my first death I tried a new strategy of just running and clicking like mad and it worked awesomely, so I'm not sure that, that is what you going for but in terms of finishing levels it did the job. You can maybe make the taser something you first have to pick up or weapons be more once off/limited charge uses, so that you force the stealth in sections of the maps, maybe its a baseball bat and after knocking them out they revive which is something I didn't like was the back tracking without any conflict.
    I really liked that darkness bomb that was really cool :P

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    @Pomb: thanks for trying the new build. I'm guessing that, while you got through the first mission or two quite easily with that strategy, it didn't allow you to finish the game, right?

    I need to spend some more time thinking hard about the game design, but our intermediate focusses are:
    • Difficulty - making the game much harsher.
    • Escalation - increasing the difficulty (on the current mission) to punish for mistakes.
    • Interesting observation - making it fun to hide in the shadows and figure out a plan.
    • Theme - improving player engagement.
    The major thing we looked at in the last update was making the game more difficult (with minimal changes to mechanics), and I feel like escalation would curb your run-and-gun strategy. The hope is that: radioing in more guards, locking down the complex, and activating cameras, should make it so you will very quickly get punished for a string of bad mistakes (which is what I consider running around guns blazing).

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    Oh, this version is definitely lovely.

    I like the idea of more fixed-placement enemies to start with. Go for that, sounds pretty win-win.

    I would second a melee arc increase.

    I'd like to see a projection of where the guards last saw your character, mainly for an indicator of "get the heck away from this area" but possibly for player mistake education too. I also think it would be cool to show a dotted radius for your hearing range (if not showing all the time, then definitely fading in while a guard is in noise range). It would be super helpful in deducing whether you've got "full ear coverage" of a room or corridor, which will assist in meaningful decision-making.

    I'm quite enjoying the sharp and merciless difficulty vibe and this will be a great aspect to refine and pay the most attention to. And if you find a way to teach players that "baiting out" guards with your own running is a thing, you can teach them how to deal with seemingly impossible patrols in lightened corridors without using any items at all, like I do. <3

    And yeah, new graphics, yum!

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    @Nandrew: Thanks for the really positive comment :)

    These recent comments by you guys have had a noticeable impact on my recent happiness. Thank you! It's making it really difficult to carry on with contract work instead of working on this, but we do need the money right now...
    Nandrew said:
    I'd like to see a projection of where the guards last saw your character
    On the todo list :)
    Nandrew said:
    I also think it would be cool to show a dotted radius for your hearing range
    I think there are some notable advantages to doing something like this, but I'm not quite sure how it would work. Currently, your effective hearing range is partially based on how loud the relevant noise is - you can hear a running guard from further away than a walking guard. Of course we could change this, but a range shown from you would only be possible if all external sounds had the same range, which I'm not sure I agree with. Thoughts on this? How do you think it could work?

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    What about categorising your hearing into three explicit ranges: soft, med, loud. The relevant hearing zone is highlighted when a sound of the relevant volume is heard.

    I don't know how 100% this concept is but if you're paying attention to sound volume you could make some interesting additions to the game, like a variety of hidden traps / turrets which you can hear humming gently when you're close enough.
  • MCAMCA

    Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    I don't think a visible delineator of hearing range makes sense. Louder sounds travel further than quieter sounds, having the level of the sounds playback according to the realistic source level and applied attenuation over distance/obstructions makes for better realism, and I think more of a challenge - e.g. you don't hear the guard behind you as loud as the one in front of you. And I think having a visual cue for hearing range might be misinterpreted as a range of sight or other ability, which could be confusing.

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281

    Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    edited
    Something like that could work. It'll be complicated by the various items that affect your hearing range, but it sounds doable. I'll have to think about it a bit more and try it out.

    The current idea is to have all gameplay-relevant sounds have visual indicators too, which I think can work well with traps that make a soft noise. For some traps, there might only be a subtle graphical indication, but the idea could be that you would hear the trap when approaching slowly.

    EDIT: my comment was made before I saw @MCA's reply. I think @Nandrew's idea could work, it just need to be tested. I have similar concerns about realism and players expectations.

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    I wouldn't overkill the whole gadgety side ie. Radii and Arcs as indicators...or maybe an option to enable/disable it? Could be a cool option to have but it might make things a lot easier.
    Having Sounds play at different volumes with a lowpass filter on if they are coming from outside the room will make the game feel very real and you can accurately place sounds and dont need to have any visual indications. Also, have you thought about guard reactions - when they spot a dead guard, how do they react? Become more cautious, group up or start searching more in that area?

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281

    Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    edited
    A bit off topic from this game but I saw on you blog you were on humble's front page. Do you mind sharing how that has affected the steam greenlight votes ? Monsters and medicine that is.

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    @Mexicanopiumdog: I agree, the interface should be kept as straight-forward as possible.

    Cool idea with using a low-pass filter for more distant sounds :)

    Yip, we definitely want guards to react to dead bodies, both immediately and in the long term. Not sure exactly how it would work, but it would probably depend on how many guards there are, and how much the situation has escalated. If two guards see a body, one of them might run off to call others while the first guard investigates, but if they see a pile of bodies they might be a lot more cautious and stick together.

    @Kobusvdwalt9: I don't think being featured on Humble had much of an effect on Greenlight. There are a number of clicks required to get from the Humble store to our Greenlight page, so we didn't expect (or have the goal of) increasing our Greenlight traffic with Humble.

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    Amazing how zeitgeist happens, discovered this browsing igf entries:
    http://games.digipen.edu/games/alone#.VFm8k_mUcrU

    Haven't played it yet, and I don't post it here to depress you that someone else has made the same game ;). But hopefully you can learn something from the game.

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    @TheFuntastic Thanks or the link! I'll definitely check it out. Always cool to see how someone else approached a similar idea. Nothing new under the sun eh?
Sign In or Register to comment.

Debug Trace

Info Need to re-index theme cache
Info Need to re-index plugin cache
Info CommentModel->PageWhere()
Info
Comment.Page.30.2227.2: false
Info CommentModel->CachePageWhere()
Info
Comment.Page.30.2227.2: array (
  0 => '2014-10-20 02:00:14',
)
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/functions.render.php line 338.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 715.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/functions.render.php line 338.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 715.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/functions.render.php line 338.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 715.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.
Notice Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 281.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/library/core/class.format.php line 465.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php line 712.
/home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/applications/vanilla/views/discussion/comments.php line 19.