[beta] Dead Run

Comments


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    The bat swing needs more explanation via animation: The timing isn't obvious. So unless the swing happens when you RELEASE the tap (which is the wrong way round, it should start on the press) there seems to be some dead frames before the animation starts that makes it difficult to judge if it's responded or not.

    Other than that, your feedback is pretty damn awesome. Why portrait mode though? Is it a thing to keep it "sneakily" playable because landscape mode means people have to spin their phones?

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    edited
    The bat swing - there are some frames before the bat reaches full swing out - so that means you CAN swing too late and a zombie would get you while you're swinging out. The game freezes when you die to emphasise that - right now the interface just appears - but we're going to make the game freeze a bit, then the interface will build in - so that you're given time to SEE that you've swung too late. But it might be difficult sometimes due to, well, pixels.

    Does the above add anything to the perception of the slow swing? The swing should be happening as you press it down, I just went to check on the web build, that's the way it is, so, do you think that there shouldn't be any frames before the bat swings out?

    From watching people play they seem to pick up the bat timing after some tries (most people go tap tap tap tap and get confused and eventually realise there's a bat). I also want to place more emphasis on the first get ready screen - which is right now missing the title screen and therefore the "get ready" interface build which would allow people to see that you're right in front of the zombie...

    As for portrait, A) it fits mobile better as that's how people hold the phones most conveniently, so yes sneakily playable :P and B ) Landscape makes the game easier - or we'd have to up the speed of the run to maintain a similar difficulty, BUT that makes it harder to spot a zombie as the sprite moves a fair bit faster and more subject to "motion blur" - difficult for the eye to track.


    Though: We *are* considering that we may flip a landscape version because we have a silly idea of bringing this to the ouya with a two player version XD

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    edited
    @Tuism: I think it's more the expectation that I tapped while a zombie was still in front of me and it ate me anyway. The feedback on the swing needs to either be more obviously a wind-up with higher contrast to explain the delay in getting the "hit" to happen, or it needs to "hit" faster. The thing that feels weird is that there's essentially a too-late-zone where no matter what you do, you waited too long.

    I dunno how the freezing will help see that your swing was too late, freezing will stop the animation. You might want to make a custom animation that has the zombie catching the player with the bat in wind-up which then goes flying off towards the right side of the screen to emphasise that there's a swing happening, it's just been interrupted.

    The pause while poor Michael Bay (in drag this time) fell over was pretty rad though.

  • Notice: Undefined variable: GuestHourOffset in /home/nitrogen/public_html_mgsatest/forums/themes/mgsa/class.mgsathemehooks.php on line 281
    I do see what you mean, yes there's a too-late zone, I thought with experience players will (and from observations they do) learn that they swung too late. But I didn't think that people might completely miss that, though.

    By custom animation, do you mean like a comic-strip popover frame that has a "close-up" of a zombie catching you in mid-swing? Cos I can't think of any other way of emphasising that because the pixel dudes are so... pixelly. It makes details like that pretty hard. But I don't really want to introduce more elements...

    Could you see the frame that the player stopped at when you swung too late? You usually can see the back swing quite obivously (attaching frames to show), but sometimes the zombie overlaps you slightly or your hat gets in the way (groan).

    image

    I think I'll tweak it so that when the zombie gets you, it will check for visual overlap and move out before freezing in place. That should help a bit. Thanks for pointing this out, feedback has been super awesome :D

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    @Tusim What @Dislekica is saying encompasses what I was saying about the bat swinging on Tuesday :P. Except he said it more elegantly :/.

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    edited
    Didn't read through all of above, so apologies if duplicate:

    1. Does anything confuse you?

    I was introduced to the game prior, so no confusion, but my wife found it really confusing. At first she tapped like crazy thinking that's what you need to do, then she found it too frustrating to distinguish the zombies from humans (which I guess is the point of the game), so she gave up.

    2. Do you wonder where anything comes from?

    Shells were explained to me, but if not, I wouldn't have known.

    3. Do you see the relationship/difference between the zombie and humans without being prompted too much?

    Not easily, and this gets frustrating fast, because unlike having to avoid an obstacle or time something, this feels like the game is trying to trick/cheat me. I would love to try this game with the zombies in a dark red colour, for instance, and for difficulty, more than one zombie at a time with less of a gap between NPC's appearing on the screen.

    4. Does it feel too hard/too easy?

    Too easy when you know who the zombies are, too hard when you don't :-) Yes, I know, that's the point of the game.

    5. Does it frustrate you? In a good way?

    Yes, not necessarily in a good way. I'd prefer to be challenged to time my hits/shots than have a hard time figuring out if zombie or human. My guess is, if you play long enough, you'll get used to the pattern of zombie/human and find the game too easy.

    6. Do you see the difference between the shotgun and the baseball bat, when which is used?

    Yes. Love the shotgun :)

    7. Anything else at all? AT ALL? :D

    - On the iPad, the game looks overly pixellated. I guess that's the look of the game, but I'd really like less blockiness on a large screen. It makes it hard to identify the zombies (again, I accept that's kind of the point).
    - I really don't like the sound when you die :(
    - You should add a delay to the "you're dead" screen, as I'm usually still playing the game and tapping away, only to suddenly find myself in the next game, one shell down.
    - Make a sound when a civilian is rescued
    - Pause button causes you to shoot/hit, menu button probably not necessary in the pause screen
    - Share doesn't work, I'm sure you know that, just throwing it in...

    That's all for now. Hope that's useful rather than irritating :)

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    @Tuism - put this on a PC at work today for my staff to play during their lunches. Everyone loved it and it made for some good laughs in the store. Some of the non-gamers at work (guess casual gamers) found it frustrating at first, but even they got the hang of it after a couple of rounds. I think the important thing in that is that EVERYONE tried it for a COUPLE of rounds. Highest score was 38 by one of our cashiers - earned some serious bragging rights :)

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    Frustrating and Fun...

    I like the slo-mo when you kill an civilian but think it will really shine if you use that (sped up a bit ofc) and a kill scene for a zombie death before posting the results.

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    Regarding the animation, what I normally do with game animation that needs to be snappy, is that the first frame of the animation is already the key frame of the anticipation (i.e. there are no frames that lead up to it), followed by the "hit" occurring less than 1/10th of a second later. If the hit needs to be more spectacular, then I add trails, fx, flashes, etc.

    It's just important that the actual hit occurs within 1/10th of a second of your input (depending on the game).

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    edited
    Sorry for the heartspam, but I <3 you all! :D This sort of focused and hyper-zoomed-in feedback is invaluable, will really help us maximise the minimal experience :D Appreciate it SO much!


    1. LOTS of feedback regarding the swing - I think for a game like this, what @Elyaradine said is right, I'm going to have to cut out the winding-up frames so people can focus on the actual timing and not feel like the input is delayed. I was discussing it with a friend, and we were comparing it to fighting games where moves have frames before hit, but in fighting games the moves are diverse and delays are expected, whereas in arcady runner games it's different and people expect action immediately. So we'll make those changes!


    2. @TobyK thanks for your input! Don't care about dupes :) All the menus will have a build-in delay - in fact the first screen where it says get ready is flawed in that it never really pauses there. We are still implementing those. And a title screen :) Rescue sounds are to be implemented, shell collection sound & effect is still to be implemented, and yes needs a better death sound. Sound is hard yo!!!

    And there are no "patterns" to zombie/human - they're random, but they look different. I guess you meant learning how to identify zombie/humans.


    3. The iPad resolution thing - I kinda noticed it too, not sure how to fix that other than to create all-new assets, or to downscale the game a bit for iPad-specific build... Which requires us to move the screen to maintain a similar difficulty, which... etc etc. Hmmmmmm need to think about this.


    4. @Dazzfuzz not sure what you mean, do you mean that if you get chowed by a zombie, you fall down slowly too? I wanted to implement that, but I wanted to also show that you may have been still swinging when you got chowed - but if we remove the lead-up frames then that can be done. Or did you mean something else?



    NB Changes I'm Considering:

    1. After watching many people play, is identifying the zombies from humans a good thing or a bad thing? Is the fact that they're not SUPER distinct a good thing or a bad thing? We could make them super distinct, by colouring the sprites (green heads for zombies, for example), but I do want to keep the silhouette style, which will be hard with that.


    2. Alternatively the run speed can be slowed down but the game can get harder quicker. (did anyone notice that the game gets harder?) This is one thing I'm really considering, will probably implement.


    3. The bat vs shotgun thing - Right now the bat only happens when there's a target in range, any other time you'll either pull out a shotgun and fail due to no shells, or fire. I want to change it so that you'll always swing a bat, unless there's a target in sight, in which case you'll either fire the gun or fail due to no shells.

    This is due to the way I see players engage - they first try to tap tap tap, and usually wasting all the ammo, which is fine, but then they hadn't learned about the bat. If they swing the bat when they're tap tap tapping, they'll understand that there's a melee attack. Then when they happen to tap earlier, they'll use up ammo, and see that they've used up ammo.


    Again, <3 <3 <3 <3 for all your input!!!! :D

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    So. Addictive! Please make an iPad build so i can stop working all together :P

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    edited
    @moonstormer (I still find it funny to call people by nicknames when I know their real one :P) if you'd like an iOS build just pop me a mail (mine is s2mega at gmail dot com) and we can get you one via testflight :) Rough edges and all :)

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    I found the zombies and humans incredibly distinct: Zombies have eye holes, humans don't.

    I think just having zombies/humans closer together would help difficulty increase too. Plus did your character scoot forwards ever so slightly as you collect people? If so, that's a neat trick to make it harder as you go along, because it messes with both your attack timing AND your response time to recognise zombies.

    Also, the switch to always trying to use the bat on taps and only using the shotgun if it's going to hit something would be a good idea. I think the other thing you could do with shotgun shells to tie their pickup to rescuing people is having the people throw a small shell/box of shells at you as they join you. Then you'd have a link between an on-screen action and the UI action of the shell appearing, plus people would know which human had a shell instead of not being sure where that just came from.

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    Funny thing is i find it extremely polarised - some people totally didn't get the difference between zombie/human until the were on the verge of giving up, some got it quickly. Guess it's just one of those things - and that people eventually do get it (without my explicit saying/prompting) is a good sign.

    Yes, the player moves up the screen ever so slightly with each rescue (to allow space for the crowd, and also to obviously make it harder :P) I think I'll have the possible encounter density increase as the game goes on, too.

    Visual and audio cue for collecting a shell are things we hadn't put into the game yet but we planned for it already. Yep :)

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    Played this today for the first time feedback might be a bit late.

    1. Does anything confuse you?
    Nope don't think so.

    2. Do you wonder where anything comes from?
    Not at all.

    3. Do you see the relationship/difference between the zombie and humans without being prompted too much?
    Yes its tricky when people lift there arms up and down but it feels like part of the game challenge.

    4. Does it feel too hard/too easy?
    Feels a bit hard to start with on the pc version. Not sure what its like on the phone version. I can't tell if there is a ramp up with regard to difficulty.

    5. Does it frustrate you? In a good way?
    It does.

    6. Do you see the difference between the shotgun and the baseball bat, when which is used?
    Yes I can.

    7. Anything else at all? AT ALL? :D
    Not really sure exactly when I get more ammunition for the shotgun. Whatever the situation is for that I can't tell.

    Not sure if this fits but a dusk till dawn theme day night adds an extra how many days kinda of challenge you made and allows for more graphical variance. just a random thought. Also night would be a little harder might be too hard guess that's in the hands the art.

    Power-ups like pitchforks for your followers lets the stab one zombie if you miss him then gone might be nice to have a fall back.

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    Thanks Travis!

    There is a difficulty ramp, though we're still tweaking that.

    The visual/audio feedback from ammo collection is missing so that'll be implemented this weekend :)

    We already have a day/night cycle planned! Just still implementing.

    The power-up is interesting idea, we'll see how it goes! Finishing and trying to maintain minimal scope and balancing and polishing the crap out of it :)

    Thanks again mina-san!

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    edited
    I haven't read all the previous comments so please forgive if there's any repeat.

    While playing I was late tapping to hit a zombie. I expected to be shown the score screen until I tap on the restart button; but actually, because I can tap anywhere to continue, the game interpreted my late tap as restart.

    Was playing the game when I pressed the home button to go to a different app. When I re-launched the app I expected to be in a paused state and I could tap to continue. What actually happened was the screen was frozen for a short time while the music and sound was playing and when the screen unfroze I had been advanced a bit and a new zombie was too close to defeat. I also suggest along with the pause state to have a count down before play resumes when the player in unpauses.

    It is too random of when a person is rescued, when bullets are received, and when zombies appear. Some sessions have few people and lots of zombies while others allow you to collect lots of people before a zombie appears. The chance to rescuing a person, receiving bullets or encountering a zombie should have a percentage chance that increases each time the event doesn't happen and when it does the chance resets to the original value. This'll mean the longer the player doesn't encounter a person to rescue the more likely they are the next encounter, and the player is guaranteed bullets after a long period of waiting.

    Otherwise I was playing this game in the shops and a couple of people we're watching over my shoulder to see what I was playing! ^_^

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    I played without reading, but someone did mention the game and a quick overview (tap for zombies, not for humans), but no details before I played.

    1. Does anything confuse you? Shotgun shells did at first
    2. Do you wonder where anything comes from? Shotgun shell - human wasn't too clear at first, but I did make the connection soon enough.
    3. Do you see the relationship/difference between the zombie and humans without being prompted too much? I'm not sure what you mean by "relationship between" but I did notice the difference, so could at least distinguish between the two.
    4. Does it feel too hard/too easy? Not entirely sure, which kind of translates as "probably in the sweet spot".
    5. Does it frustrate you? In a good way? Yes, slightly good slightly bad, but it may just be because I'm not a huge fan of the type of game.
    6. Do you see the difference between the shotgun and the baseball bat, when which is used? Definitely, although the difference in between when they're used not so much.
    7. Anything else at all? AT ALL? :D

    Most of my feedback has already been said in some form or another but to reiterate:
    The timing on the swing did annoy me a little bit. I did get used to it after a while, but I'm not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing.
    Some kind of bad luck protection would be nice. It is pretty frustrating when you start a new game, and 10 zombies later you get your first human. Something like what @Fengol suggested is what I'm thinking of.
    The rescued humans -> shotgun ammo mechanic definitely needs a visual clue like @dislekcia said, but it sounds like you are planning that.
    Also not a fan of the losing sound.

    After I realized (while reading other posts) that there's no cooldown on tapping, the game became significantly easier, but not necessarily more fun. At first I just tried to tap at the far end of melee range, so that most of the time I would melee the zombie, while bad timing would lead to using a shotgun (too early) or die (much too late). Afterwards I just figured I can spam tap until a zombie dies (although it does waste shotgun ammo).
    I'm kind of leaning towards the former (with a cooldown on swing/shoot) being a bit more fun, but it could be more frustrating (in a bad way).

    To end on a good note: I really like the silhouette art style and how it ties into the identifying your targets mechanic.

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    When are we getting an update on iOS?

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    We were supposed to finish the beta on the weekend but (obviously) a lot of things were unexpectedly difficult, so we've been delayed a bit... But by tonight or tomorrow I'll put out another build (BETA!) albeit with a lot of things not quite right yet.

    In the meantime, instagram videos! (wish I could just straight up embed them) (i have the embed code, is there a way to do html on this forum?)

    http://instagram.com/p/kt7Y6FN1fv/
    http://instagram.com/p/kxQYIxN1cX/

    <iframe src="//instagram.com/p/kxQYIxN1cX/embed/" width="612" height="710" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

    <iframe src="//instagram.com/p/kxQYIxN1cX/embed/" width="612" height="710" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

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    I would never allow iframes because then you can link to anything like viruses, malware, etc.

    I've got on my list to look at embedding Vine; I will add Instagram as well

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    @Tuism: When you're ready for some exposure on the game, the guy who was the presenter in our DD announcement trailer has figured out a way to record directly off iOS devices and is keen to start hitting youtube with that. Grant's no stranger to making video content (TV presenter, been in web videos for years) so if you want to swing him a build via Testflight I can do introductions :)

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    edited
    Thanks @dislekcia!! We're just finishing off some last bits of tweaking that we think are crucial to game balance (funny how such a little mechanic needs this much balance tweaking) to feel right in the play, before implementing achievements and things (quite a large part of the longevity and fun of the game, but we're ok to show it without them in beta).

    When we're done implementing the balance tweaks we'll be ready for that. An introduction would be ABSOLUTELY AMAZEBALLS :D Thanks a trillion gazillion!

    Edit: Also I'd loooove to either 1) get a video in iphone format or 2) know how to do it because I'd like to put a gameplay video on the site we're gonna build (in a way like www.ridiculousfishing.com), and the youtube format with the black sides is just..... Meh. So that'd be GREAT!!

    Addendum: anyone who wants to get our next beta can leave their email here, we're swinging iOS test builds already but I'm more excited about the beta coming next :D

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    edited
    Brief update, we haven't been doing nothing on Dead Run :P

    We added a bunch of stuff, and here Imma show some stuff that can be giffed:

    Juice to zombie batting:
    image

    Then we were busy changing the timing of the bat cooldown and ended up with this hilarious bug:
    image

    Also added juice to the shell pickup:
    image

    And similar juice to an accidental kill:
    image

    There's a bunch of balance and gameplay tweaks coming, unfortunately I can't beta it right now cos it's unstable and we haven't had time to make it so this week... On the weekend though! Rawr!

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    edited
    Looking good guys

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    looking good! Thanks for gifs :D

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    The shell animation still isn't very tied to the individual being rescued. You need to move the shell from the rescuee to the player more obviously - use the motion of the rescuee more somehow, that's why I suggested throwing the shell to the player to establish a link.

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    @dislekcia

    I actually thought a lot about the throwing the shell thing, and there's 2 scenarios - 1, the rescuee throws the shell BEFORE they get to you - so you can see it. That makes it too easy to identify some humans, right? Also the animation would either be so fast it's difficult to distinguish (closer to player) or so early and far away from the player that it's again, a bit duh to the identifying zombies thing.

    The other scenario is throwing it AFTER the rescuee passes the player - but then they go into the crowd of other survivors and well, it's just impossible to tell the one from the other.

    I do think the current animation's a bit removed - somehow there's a huge delay between the person running past you and the shell coming up, I think that must be shortened to be super immediate.

    Oh and there's a sound effect of the pickup that you're (obviously, my bad) not hearing.

    Then I think when that happens I'll also flash the survivor white for a frame or two - that makes sense to me, what do you think?

    Also I am going to add a +1 visual effect in the style of the score number above the survivor when they run past you, because some people are still confused about the score (some think that zombie kills = score).

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    A little gif of the current day/night cycle :)

    image

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    Is that a rainbow, or was I just happy to see this? :)

    http://instagram.com/p/lCh8OFt1dy/

    (nyan nyan nyan)
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